php -v

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php -v

Baki Goxhaj
Hi guys,

Are there any plans to upgrade the minimum required version of PHP in WP? I
think we are falling a little behind.

What's the word on that?

Kindly,

Baki Goxhaj
about.me/banago
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Re: php -v

abdussamad
Far too many people are still on 5.2:

http://wordpress.org/about/stats/

On 11/07/2013 09:29 PM, Baki Goxhaj wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> Are there any plans to upgrade the minimum required version of PHP in WP? I
> think we are falling a little behind.
>
> What's the word on that?
>
> Kindly,
>
> Baki Goxhaj
> about.me/banago
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>
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Re: php -v

Baki Goxhaj
That graph is very outdated. Look here instead:
http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php/5/all

Because I use a small class on my themes that requires 3.5, I've asked 10+
clients to upgrade PHP to more then 5.2 and the good news is all of them
have done so with no issue at all. It seems people still use 5.2 in many
hosts because that was pre-selected 3-4 years ago when the signed up.

I think WordPress can make a difference in this sphere by requiring at
least 5.3.

Kindly,

Baki Goxhaj
about.me/banago


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Abdussamad Abdurrazzaq <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Far too many people are still on 5.2:
>
> http://wordpress.org/about/stats/
>
>
> On 11/07/2013 09:29 PM, Baki Goxhaj wrote:
>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Are there any plans to upgrade the minimum required version of PHP in WP?
>> I
>> think we are falling a little behind.
>>
>> What's the word on that?
>>
>> Kindly,
>>
>> Baki Goxhaj
>> about.me/banago
>> _______________________________________________
>> wp-hackers mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>
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Re: php -v

Coen Jacobs
If you compare those two graphs it might look outdated, it is actually not.
The difference between the two graphs is that the one on wordpress.org is
the PHP version on servers running WordPress. The one you linked to is the
web in general.


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Baki Goxhaj <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That graph is very outdated. Look here instead:
> http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php/5/all
>
> Because I use a small class on my themes that requires 3.5, I've asked 10+
> clients to upgrade PHP to more then 5.2 and the good news is all of them
> have done so with no issue at all. It seems people still use 5.2 in many
> hosts because that was pre-selected 3-4 years ago when the signed up.
>
> I think WordPress can make a difference in this sphere by requiring at
> least 5.3.
>
> Kindly,
>
> Baki Goxhaj
> about.me/banago
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Abdussamad Abdurrazzaq <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Far too many people are still on 5.2:
> >
> > http://wordpress.org/about/stats/
> >
> >
> > On 11/07/2013 09:29 PM, Baki Goxhaj wrote:
> >
> >> Hi guys,
> >>
> >> Are there any plans to upgrade the minimum required version of PHP in
> WP?
> >> I
> >> think we are falling a little behind.
> >>
> >> What's the word on that?
> >>
> >> Kindly,
> >>
> >> Baki Goxhaj
> >> about.me/banago
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> wp-hackers mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
> >>
> >>  _______________________________________________
> > wp-hackers mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>
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Re: php -v

abdussamad
In reply to this post by Baki Goxhaj
Hosts are loath to upgrade. Just look back at how long php 4 was around.
They don't want the customer support headache that upgrading PHP brings
them.

On 11/07/2013 09:43 PM, Baki Goxhaj wrote:

> That graph is very outdated. Look here instead:
> http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php/5/all
>
> Because I use a small class on my themes that requires 3.5, I've asked 10+
> clients to upgrade PHP to more then 5.2 and the good news is all of them
> have done so with no issue at all. It seems people still use 5.2 in many
> hosts because that was pre-selected 3-4 years ago when the signed up.
>
> I think WordPress can make a difference in this sphere by requiring at
> least 5.3.
>
> Kindly,
>
> Baki Goxhaj
> about.me/banago
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Abdussamad Abdurrazzaq <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Far too many people are still on 5.2:
>>
>> http://wordpress.org/about/stats/
>>
>>
>> On 11/07/2013 09:29 PM, Baki Goxhaj wrote:
>>
>>> Hi guys,
>>>
>>> Are there any plans to upgrade the minimum required version of PHP in WP?
>>> I
>>> think we are falling a little behind.
>>>
>>> What's the word on that?
>>>
>>> Kindly,
>>>
>>> Baki Goxhaj
>>> about.me/banago
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> wp-hackers mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>>>
>>>   _______________________________________________
>> wp-hackers mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>>
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
> .
>
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Re: php -v

Justas Butkus
In reply to this post by Coen Jacobs
2013.11.07 18:45, Coen Jacobs rašė:
> If you compare those two graphs it might look outdated, it is actually not.
> The difference between the two graphs is that the one on wordpress.org is
> the PHP version on servers running WordPress. The one you linked to is the
> web in general.
Is it possible that significant number of sites running PHP 5.2 are on
just a few big hosting providers, who run PHP 5.2 allegedly for
compatibility reasons, and receiving request from their customers would
update to more up-to date versions of PHP, which would allow for them to
save resources (i.e. do to more effective caching in PHP 5.5) and/or
allow greater developments of the web in general?


--
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Re: php -v

J.D. Grimes
I’ve often thought that the lead devs should just announce that support for 5.2 will be dropped by a certain date, and see what happens.

On Nov 7, 2013, at 11:53 AM, Justas Butkus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2013.11.07 18:45, Coen Jacobs rašė:
>> If you compare those two graphs it might look outdated, it is actually not.
>> The difference between the two graphs is that the one on wordpress.org is
>> the PHP version on servers running WordPress. The one you linked to is the
>> web in general.
> Is it possible that significant number of sites running PHP 5.2 are on just a few big hosting providers, who run PHP 5.2 allegedly for compatibility reasons, and receiving request from their customers would update to more up-to date versions of PHP, which would allow for them to save resources (i.e. do to more effective caching in PHP 5.5) and/or allow greater developments of the web in general?
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Justas Butkus
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers

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Re: php -v

Matt Sowden
I don't think it hurts in any way to stay on 5.2 right now honestly, seeing as if you want to upgrade to 5.3 it can be done with no issue, as stated earlier. It'll cause more problems than it will solve, if it even solves any.

Minimum != Required

Best,
Matthew C. Sowden
+MattSowden
@mattsowden

-----Original Message-----
From: wp-hackers [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of J.D. Grimes
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 12:05 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [wp-hackers] php -v

I’ve often thought that the lead devs should just announce that support for 5.2 will be dropped by a certain date, and see what happens.

On Nov 7, 2013, at 11:53 AM, Justas Butkus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2013.11.07 18:45, Coen Jacobs rašė:
>> If you compare those two graphs it might look outdated, it is actually not.
>> The difference between the two graphs is that the one on
>> wordpress.org is the PHP version on servers running WordPress. The
>> one you linked to is the web in general.
> Is it possible that significant number of sites running PHP 5.2 are on just a few big hosting providers, who run PHP 5.2 allegedly for compatibility reasons, and receiving request from their customers would update to more up-to date versions of PHP, which would allow for them to save resources (i.e. do to more effective caching in PHP 5.5) and/or allow greater developments of the web in general?
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Justas Butkus
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers

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Re: php -v

Justas Butkus
In reply to this post by J.D. Grimes
2013.11.07 19:04, J.D. Grimes rašė:
> I’ve often thought that the lead devs should just announce that support for 5.2 will be dropped by a certain date, and see what happens.
Optionally using big red box in admin notification area and suggesting
that next minimum supported version will be PHP 5.5.

Actually, with our plugin (All-in-One Event Calendar) we see a bit
different numbers (there might be some skew):
     - more than 55% are using WordPress 3.6.1 or earlier;
     - more than 20% are using PHP 5.2.x or earlier.
Sure it says little about WordPress in general, but that's mostly why I
am interested, whereas WordPress maintainers has some chance to see, if
there might be few major players in hosting using old versions.

--
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Re: php -v

John Blackbourn
There has been discussion on this in various places over recent months and
years.

There is little argument in favour of raising the minimum required PHP
version to 5.3 because of the limited increase in features that it provides
over 5.2 (namespacing and closures being the main ones). This is not enough
of a feature set to warrant raising the minimum PHP version (closures would
provide no benefit to WordPress, and I love namespacing but we've survived
this long without it).

Rather than asking "Are there any plans to upgrade the minimum required
version of PHP in WP?", the question should be "If we raise the minimum
required version of PHP, will it give us enough benefit to warrant the
raise?"

So if we're talking about raising the minimum required PHP version, there
has to be a solid case for it. What benefits would we get by moving to PHP
5.3, 5.4 or 5.5? 5.4 gives us traits, but not a lot else besides various
shorthand syntaxes. 5.5 gives us generators and a new password API.

Does this list of features provide enough of a benefit to WordPress to
warrant raising the minimum required version? Are the performance
improvements in these versions enough of a benefit on their own? (They may
well be.)

When we moved from PHP 4 to PHP 5(.2) the benefit was substantial because
of the changes in the object model (visibility, abstract classes, magic
methods, autoloading) and probably other things I've not thought of. The
benefits that 5.3-5.5 provide over these are lesser in comparison.

There was some mention recently of another drive aimed at getting hosts to
update their PHP versions, similar to the GoPHP5 initiative back yonder. I
can't see this happening though.

John

On 7 November 2013 17:10, Justas Butkus <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2013.11.07 19:04, J.D. Grimes rašė:
>
>  I’ve often thought that the lead devs should just announce that support
>> for 5.2 will be dropped by a certain date, and see what happens.
>>
> Optionally using big red box in admin notification area and suggesting
> that next minimum supported version will be PHP 5.5.
>
> Actually, with our plugin (All-in-One Event Calendar) we see a bit
> different numbers (there might be some skew):
>     - more than 55% are using WordPress 3.6.1 or earlier;
>     - more than 20% are using PHP 5.2.x or earlier.
> Sure it says little about WordPress in general, but that's mostly why I am
> interested, whereas WordPress maintainers has some chance to see, if there
> might be few major players in hosting using old versions.
>
> --
> Justas Butkus
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>
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Re: php -v

Thomas Scholz-4
John Blackbourn,

> There is little argument in favour of raising the minimum required PHP
> version to 5.3 because of the limited increase in features that it  
> provides
> over 5.2 (namespacing and closures being the main ones).

The most important “features” is that you cannot disable SPL in 5.3  
anymore. With 5.3 we could use real auto-loaders (performance!),  
iterators, default interfaces like Countable and so on.

Even WordPress core would benefit from that: one of the most used  
functions—add_filter()—could rely on spl_object_hash(), and we could  
finally drop the current terrible workaround.

Just extend Browse Happy with a notice about the outdated PHP version for  
the next two major WP versions, and 5.2 will vanish very soon.

The WP stats don’t differentiate between abandoned WP installations (still  
on old WP versions) and those which are kept up to date. The real impact  
of a 5.3 requirement would hit much less users than the simple diagram  
suggests.

The latest required PHP version should always be one still receiving  
security updates by PHP. 5.2 is and will stay insecure. In my opinion, the  
current requirements hurt our users.

Thomas
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Re: php -v

Nashwan Doaqan
In reply to this post by John Blackbourn
1+, to require PHP 5.3.x as a minimum version.

It make a big difference for us as plugin developers, we will could use all
PHP 5.3 features without worrying about the compatibility problems!

I ask all of my clients to upgrade the PHP version to PHP 5.3 and no one
have a problem with that.. most good hosts have a 'PHP Version Select' in
the cPanel.



On 7 November 2013 21:23, John Blackbourn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There has been discussion on this in various places over recent months and
> years.
>
> There is little argument in favour of raising the minimum required PHP
> version to 5.3 because of the limited increase in features that it provides
> over 5.2 (namespacing and closures being the main ones). This is not enough
> of a feature set to warrant raising the minimum PHP version (closures would
> provide no benefit to WordPress, and I love namespacing but we've survived
> this long without it).
>
> Rather than asking "Are there any plans to upgrade the minimum required
> version of PHP in WP?", the question should be "If we raise the minimum
> required version of PHP, will it give us enough benefit to warrant the
> raise?"
>
> So if we're talking about raising the minimum required PHP version, there
> has to be a solid case for it. What benefits would we get by moving to PHP
> 5.3, 5.4 or 5.5? 5.4 gives us traits, but not a lot else besides various
> shorthand syntaxes. 5.5 gives us generators and a new password API.
>
> Does this list of features provide enough of a benefit to WordPress to
> warrant raising the minimum required version? Are the performance
> improvements in these versions enough of a benefit on their own? (They may
> well be.)
>
> When we moved from PHP 4 to PHP 5(.2) the benefit was substantial because
> of the changes in the object model (visibility, abstract classes, magic
> methods, autoloading) and probably other things I've not thought of. The
> benefits that 5.3-5.5 provide over these are lesser in comparison.
>
> There was some mention recently of another drive aimed at getting hosts to
> update their PHP versions, similar to the GoPHP5 initiative back yonder. I
> can't see this happening though.
>
> John
>
> On 7 November 2013 17:10, Justas Butkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > 2013.11.07 19:04, J.D. Grimes rašė:
> >
> >  I’ve often thought that the lead devs should just announce that support
> >> for 5.2 will be dropped by a certain date, and see what happens.
> >>
> > Optionally using big red box in admin notification area and suggesting
> > that next minimum supported version will be PHP 5.5.
> >
> > Actually, with our plugin (All-in-One Event Calendar) we see a bit
> > different numbers (there might be some skew):
> >     - more than 55% are using WordPress 3.6.1 or earlier;
> >     - more than 20% are using PHP 5.2.x or earlier.
> > Sure it says little about WordPress in general, but that's mostly why I
> am
> > interested, whereas WordPress maintainers has some chance to see, if
> there
> > might be few major players in hosting using old versions.
> >
> > --
> > Justas Butkus
> > _______________________________________________
> > wp-hackers mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>
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Re: php -v

Nashwan Doaqan
In addition of what @Thomas Scholz said, We could use the Improved SPL
features in PHP 5.3 to enhance the WordPress, Right?


On 7 November 2013 21:48, Nashwan Doaqan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 1+, to require PHP 5.3.x as a minimum version.
>
> It make a big difference for us as plugin developers, we will could use
> all PHP 5.3 features without worrying about the compatibility problems!
>
> I ask all of my clients to upgrade the PHP version to PHP 5.3 and no one
> have a problem with that.. most good hosts have a 'PHP Version Select' in
> the cPanel.
>
>
>
> On 7 November 2013 21:23, John Blackbourn <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> There has been discussion on this in various places over recent months and
>> years.
>>
>> There is little argument in favour of raising the minimum required PHP
>> version to 5.3 because of the limited increase in features that it
>> provides
>> over 5.2 (namespacing and closures being the main ones). This is not
>> enough
>> of a feature set to warrant raising the minimum PHP version (closures
>> would
>> provide no benefit to WordPress, and I love namespacing but we've survived
>> this long without it).
>>
>> Rather than asking "Are there any plans to upgrade the minimum required
>> version of PHP in WP?", the question should be "If we raise the minimum
>> required version of PHP, will it give us enough benefit to warrant the
>> raise?"
>>
>> So if we're talking about raising the minimum required PHP version, there
>> has to be a solid case for it. What benefits would we get by moving to PHP
>> 5.3, 5.4 or 5.5? 5.4 gives us traits, but not a lot else besides various
>> shorthand syntaxes. 5.5 gives us generators and a new password API.
>>
>> Does this list of features provide enough of a benefit to WordPress to
>> warrant raising the minimum required version? Are the performance
>> improvements in these versions enough of a benefit on their own? (They may
>> well be.)
>>
>> When we moved from PHP 4 to PHP 5(.2) the benefit was substantial because
>> of the changes in the object model (visibility, abstract classes, magic
>> methods, autoloading) and probably other things I've not thought of. The
>> benefits that 5.3-5.5 provide over these are lesser in comparison.
>>
>> There was some mention recently of another drive aimed at getting hosts to
>> update their PHP versions, similar to the GoPHP5 initiative back yonder. I
>> can't see this happening though.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 7 November 2013 17:10, Justas Butkus <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > 2013.11.07 19:04, J.D. Grimes rašė:
>> >
>> >  I’ve often thought that the lead devs should just announce that support
>> >> for 5.2 will be dropped by a certain date, and see what happens.
>> >>
>> > Optionally using big red box in admin notification area and suggesting
>> > that next minimum supported version will be PHP 5.5.
>> >
>> > Actually, with our plugin (All-in-One Event Calendar) we see a bit
>> > different numbers (there might be some skew):
>> >     - more than 55% are using WordPress 3.6.1 or earlier;
>> >     - more than 20% are using PHP 5.2.x or earlier.
>> > Sure it says little about WordPress in general, but that's mostly why I
>> am
>> > interested, whereas WordPress maintainers has some chance to see, if
>> there
>> > might be few major players in hosting using old versions.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Justas Butkus
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > wp-hackers mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> wp-hackers mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>>
>
>
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Re: php -v

Helen Hou-Sandi-2
To suggestions that the admin display a warning - though it sounds nice,
it's unlikely to be anything but unnecessarily scary for a user. It only
helps those who know how to upgrade their PHP version, and those who know
how to do so are rather unlikely to still be on 5.2, or 5.3 even. We can't
put the burden of what a host uses by default for a new site on a user who
didn't make that choice in the first place.
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Re: php -v

Baki Goxhaj
I see some folks don't see the benefits of upgrading to 5.3, but it would
be huge architecture-wise. Thomas Scholz has summarized some of the
benefits above.

WordPress has to keep the pace with the language before it becomes to dull
to work with. The developers are one of the major factors that push
WordPress forward and I would be very vigilant to keep them happy. Staying
with 5.2 for much longer is not going to make them happy for sure.

One model of upgrading the PHP version is the jQuery model. They maintain
two versions, one that supports old browsers and one that is better,
faster, modular for the new browsers. In the case of WordPress, it would be
even more easier. Let's say, WordPress 3.9 will be the last version of
WordPress to support PHP 5.2. On the other hand, WordPress 4.0 would be
5.3. The legacy version can be maintained for a long time and updated with
little features that won't hurt. And the rest of the ecosystem will be
given a superior WordPress version that will make the folks running the old
one want to upgrade. I see this as a very good strategy to make people
upgrade their PHP version.

Thoughts?

Kindly,

Baki Goxhaj
about.me/banago


On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Helen Hou-Sandi <[hidden email]> wrote:

> To suggestions that the admin display a warning - though it sounds nice,
> it's unlikely to be anything but unnecessarily scary for a user. It only
> helps those who know how to upgrade their PHP version, and those who know
> how to do so are rather unlikely to still be on 5.2, or 5.3 even. We can't
> put the burden of what a host uses by default for a new site on a user who
> didn't make that choice in the first place.
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
>
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Re: php -v

Marko Heijnen
If core still can work on 5.2 then that is the requirement. It’s stupid to say that it’s 5.3 when it still can run fine on 5.2.
If you only want to have WordPress doing so because you as a plugin developer using 5.3+ functionality then the issue is on you.

If you think WordPress can gain a lot of PHP 5.3 then create a repo on GitHub and start working on those improvements and see if that works out.
Personally I would hate it when WordPress would use namespaces for example. It’s ugly to look at and make it a bit harder for the average WP developer.

In the end WordPress probably would do something like a legacy version because the upgraded will then not allow you to upgrade to the next version.
We can add features but at least we can do security fixes.

Marko


Op 7 nov. 2013, om 22:02 heeft Baki Goxhaj <[hidden email]> het volgende geschreven:

> I see some folks don't see the benefits of upgrading to 5.3, but it would
> be huge architecture-wise. Thomas Scholz has summarized some of the
> benefits above.
>
> WordPress has to keep the pace with the language before it becomes to dull
> to work with. The developers are one of the major factors that push
> WordPress forward and I would be very vigilant to keep them happy. Staying
> with 5.2 for much longer is not going to make them happy for sure.
>
> One model of upgrading the PHP version is the jQuery model. They maintain
> two versions, one that supports old browsers and one that is better,
> faster, modular for the new browsers. In the case of WordPress, it would be
> even more easier. Let's say, WordPress 3.9 will be the last version of
> WordPress to support PHP 5.2. On the other hand, WordPress 4.0 would be
> 5.3. The legacy version can be maintained for a long time and updated with
> little features that won't hurt. And the rest of the ecosystem will be
> given a superior WordPress version that will make the folks running the old
> one want to upgrade. I see this as a very good strategy to make people
> upgrade their PHP version.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Kindly,
>
> Baki Goxhaj
> about.me/banago
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Helen Hou-Sandi <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> To suggestions that the admin display a warning - though it sounds nice,
>> it's unlikely to be anything but unnecessarily scary for a user. It only
>> helps those who know how to upgrade their PHP version, and those who know
>> how to do so are rather unlikely to still be on 5.2, or 5.3 even. We can't
>> put the burden of what a host uses by default for a new site on a user who
>> didn't make that choice in the first place.
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Re: php -v

Dion Hulse (dd32)
In reply to this post by Baki Goxhaj
FWIW, I did a random sampling of some 3.7.1 API requests, and that too
showed about 50% of users on 5.2.17, which mostly agree's with
http://wordpress.org/about/stats/ (I was really hoping that PHP 5.2 was
more common amongst older versions of WordPress, but that was proved wrong)

A number of larger american hosts defaulted to PHP 5.2 a long time ago and
never forced users to update. A number of them are currently mass-migrating
users to PHP 5.3 so it'll be interesting to see how that changes the tide
in the coming months.



On 8 November 2013 03:43, Baki Goxhaj <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That graph is very outdated. Look here instead:
> http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/pl-php/5/all
>
> Because I use a small class on my themes that requires 3.5, I've asked 10+
> clients to upgrade PHP to more then 5.2 and the good news is all of them
> have done so with no issue at all. It seems people still use 5.2 in many
> hosts because that was pre-selected 3-4 years ago when the signed up.
>
> I think WordPress can make a difference in this sphere by requiring at
> least 5.3.
>
> Kindly,
>
> Baki Goxhaj
> about.me/banago
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Abdussamad Abdurrazzaq <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Far too many people are still on 5.2:
> >
> > http://wordpress.org/about/stats/
> >
> >
> > On 11/07/2013 09:29 PM, Baki Goxhaj wrote:
> >
> >> Hi guys,
> >>
> >> Are there any plans to upgrade the minimum required version of PHP in
> WP?
> >> I
> >> think we are falling a little behind.
> >>
> >> What's the word on that?
> >>
> >> Kindly,
> >>
> >> Baki Goxhaj
> >> about.me/banago
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> wp-hackers mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
> >>
> >>  _______________________________________________
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Re: php -v

Ryan McCue-3
Dion Hulse (dd32) wrote:
> FWIW, I did a random sampling of some 3.7.1 API requests, and that too
> showed about 50% of users on 5.2.17, which mostly agree's with
> http://wordpress.org/about/stats/ (I was really hoping that PHP 5.2 was
> more common amongst older versions of WordPress, but that was proved wrong)
>
> A number of larger american hosts defaulted to PHP 5.2 a long time ago and
> never forced users to update. A number of them are currently mass-migrating
> users to PHP 5.3 so it'll be interesting to see how that changes the tide
> in the coming months.

In addition, there's a bunch of different people working with hosts to
push this forward. I hate to be opaque and not give any details, but
suffice to say that there's a few big hosts pushing forward on this now.

The PHP-FIG (Framework Interoperability Group) is looking at a new
GoPHP5-style initiative, and I'm acting as the (unofficial)
representative for WP there as well.

----

With regards to the arguments that we could rearchitecture WP to be more
modern, etc etc, that's realistically not going to happen due to
backwards compatibility concerns. I doubt we'll be switching out for
autoloaders any time soon (they have performance concerns that need to
be fully concerned, for one), for example. It's also pretty unlikely
that we start rewriting pieces of WP to use 5.3+ features.

Maintaining a separate branch for compatibility is also not a real
option. We tried it before with 2.0, and as Mark Jaquith can attest, it
sucked to manage.

As much as I'd love personally to go and rewrite a heap of WP to fit in,
it's realistically not going to happen.

The (perhaps unofficial) policy that I recall is that we can try out
5.3+ features as a sort of progressive enhancement that's only available
to 5.3+ users as a sort of enticement. As far as I know, we haven't
actually had any issues where 5.3+ would be required for a feature, or
at least that couldn't be done in a 5.2-compatible way, so there's been
no significant push there.

----

This all said, if you want to help make WP better in this regard, get in
and start helping out. I'm trying really hard to make the WP-API project
[1] a model to follow with regards to modern WP features; there's
interfaces *and* reflection! My hope is that some of the WP-API core
will end up merged into WP's core (that is, WP/WP_Query/WP_Post/etc) and
have significant effects outside just the API.

If there's specific areas of WP that you think need modernisation (and I
don't necessarily mean 5.3+ things; we still have PHP4 idioms in
places), do something about it. Mention it here if you think it's a
major issue, and we can start a discussion about it. Even better, create
a proof-of-concept patch!

[1]: https://github.com/WP-API/WP-API

--
Ryan McCue
<http://ryanmccue.info/>
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Re: php -v

Eric Mann
>
> If core still can work on 5.2 then that is the requirement. It’s stupid to
> say that it’s 5.3 when it still can run fine on 5.2.


You're missing the point. Core can still work on 5.2 *because* 5.2 is the
minimum requirement. It would be "stupid" to put a feature that requires
5.3 into core because it would be rejected out of hand by committers since
it would, you guessed it, make it so that core will not run on the minimum
required version.

So long as 5.2 is the minimum requirement, core will *always* run on at
least 5.2.  We have to raise the requirement before we can start putting
5.3 (or 5.4 or 5.5) code into core.


> FWIW, I did a random sampling of some 3.7.1 API requests, and that too showed
> about 50% of users on 5.2.17


Would be nice if we could update the stats page to make this kind of
information publicly available. Would help us (developers) better target
our code and would go miles in helping to tone down the attitude of this
kind of conversation in the future.

It's also pretty unlikely that we start rewriting pieces of WP to use 5.3+
> features.


Agreed. But the ability to start writing *new* features for WP using 5.3+
code features would be beneficial.  I like our backwards compatibility and
it's one of the reasons WordPress is so powerful. But as we add new
features into core it would be fantastic if we could write them using, say,
namespaces to isolate the new functionality from workarounds/hacks/poor
code already present in themes and plugins that implement said features in
their own way.

The (perhaps unofficial) policy that I recall is that we can try out 5.3+
> features as a sort of progressive enhancement that's only available to 5.3+
> users as a sort of enticement.


This. I really like this idea. Would be fairly easy to expose a
PHP_BLEEDING or similar constant in core and use that as a switch to turn
on/off enhanced (new) features. My hesitation here is the same as Helen
pointed out earlier - most end users have no idea what PHP is, how it
works, what version they're running, or how to upgrade.  By hiding new
features behind a versioned wall, we're introducing a world where WordPress
is advertised to have X feature, but when Jimmy Blogger clicks the
auto-install button on his hosting dashboard, X feature is nowhere to be
found.  He'll blame WordPress, not his host, for the discrepancy.
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Re: php -v

Otto-19
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Eric Mann <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > FWIW, I did a random sampling of some 3.7.1 API requests, and that too
> showed
> > about 50% of users on 5.2.17
>
> Would be nice if we could update the stats page to make this kind of
> information publicly available. Would help us (developers) better target
> our code and would go miles in helping to tone down the attitude of this
> kind of conversation in the future.


I'm not getting involved in this conversation, other than to say this. ;)

The data used for the graphs on the stats page are built daily, using a
random(ish) sampling of the API requests from the previous day.

What you see on that page is current and up-to-date. It's not counting
every install in the world, or months-old installs, or inactive installs
that nobody is visiting. It's built from just the API requests from the day
before.

-Otto
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