Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

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Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Matt Galvin
Hi Everyone,

New guy here :)...

I am very interested in porting WordPress to PostgreSQL. I poked
around on the net a bit and found a *very* outdate port[1] and a forum
thread from a few years ago[2] on this topic. From what I can tell
there is no current progress on porting WP to PostgreSQL which leads
me to have a few questions.

Is there currently an effort (or a plan) to get WP working with post?

If yes where can I find out more about it and help?

If not, are you guys (the devs) interested in collaborating with me to
get WP working on top of post?

I have been using WP for a while and have been very happy with it
aside from the fact that I have to run MySQL soley for WP. Everything
else I run I use with PostgreSQL. Since I am new to WP dev, are there
any special guidelines or anything I should be aware of before diving
in. I will wait for some responses before going any further for now.
Please let me know what you all think.

Thanks,

Matt

[1] http://wordpress-pg.sourceforge.net/
[2] http://wordpress.org/support/topic/549/page/2

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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Matt Galvin
> [1] http://wordpress-pg.sourceforge.net/
> [2] http://wordpress.org/support/topic/549/page/2

I also found:

http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Alternative_Databases

which is a great start to dicussing the issues involved. Has there
been any further discussion on making finial decisions and starting to
write the code?

Thanks,

Matt

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Re: Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Carson Evans
Matt, i'm not a WP dev, just a lurker here, but I'd be interested in  
helping out.

-Carson

On Mar 20, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Matt Galvin wrote:

>> [1] http://wordpress-pg.sourceforge.net/
>> [2] http://wordpress.org/support/topic/549/page/2
>
> I also found:
>
> http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Alternative_Databases
>
> which is a great start to dicussing the issues involved. Has there
> been any further discussion on making finial decisions and starting to
> write the code?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
> --
> Matt T. Galvin
> mgalvin on irc.freenode.net
> http://people.simplifiedcomplexity.com/~mgalvin/
> Ubuntu Documentation Team Member
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> [hidden email]
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Re: Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Martin-93
I too am only a lurker here but I would be very interested in allowing WP to
use postgres.
I have looked into it a bit and found that they are using a db layer (a
modified ezSQL) that should already allow them to use postgres without too
much problem.
The main hurdle I see is that the database schema has some mysqlism that we
would need to work around. enums for instance, but i think triggers could
take care of that for us.

But I suppose that is all a bit premature without first hearing from the
devs.. =)

-m

On 3/20/06, Carson Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Matt, i'm not a WP dev, just a lurker here, but I'd be interested in
> helping out.
>
> -Carson
>
> On Mar 20, 2006, at 10:08 AM, Matt Galvin wrote:
>
> >> [1] http://wordpress-pg.sourceforge.net/
> >> [2] http://wordpress.org/support/topic/549/page/2
> >
> > I also found:
> >
> > http://codex.wordpress.org/Using_Alternative_Databases
> >
> > which is a great start to dicussing the issues involved. Has there
> > been any further discussion on making finial decisions and starting to
> > write the code?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > --
> > Matt T. Galvin
> > mgalvin on irc.freenode.net
> > http://people.simplifiedcomplexity.com/~mgalvin/
> > Ubuntu Documentation Team Member
> > _______________________________________________
> > wp-hackers mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
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Re: Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Gerhard Brauckmann
Newbee question,

is there any cool demo or howto guide available which describes the act
of adding external db-tables
into WP?

thx
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sorry...

Gerhard Brauckmann

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* <http://www.b-logged.de>
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Gerhard Brauckmann schrieb:

> Newbee question,
>
> is there any cool demo or howto guide available which describes the
> act of adding external db-tables
> into WP?
>
> thx
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Gerhard * <http://www.b-logged.de>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>  
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adding external DB Tables to WP?

Gerhard Brauckmann
In reply to this post by Gerhard Brauckmann
Newbee question,

is there any cool demo or howto guide available which describes the act
of adding external db-tables
into WP?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Gerhard * <http://www.b-logged.de>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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Re: adding external DB Tables to WP?

Peter Westwood
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Gerhard Brauckmann wrote:
> Newbee question,
>
> is there any cool demo or howto guide available which describes the act
> of adding external db-tables
> into WP?

This may be of interest:
http://codex.wordpress.org/Creating_Tables_with_Plugins

westi
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Re: Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Ryan Boren
In reply to this post by Martin-93
Martin wrote:
> I too am only a lurker here but I would be very interested in allowing WP to
> use postgres.
> I have looked into it a bit and found that they are using a db layer (a
> modified ezSQL) that should already allow them to use postgres without too
> much problem.
> The main hurdle I see is that the database schema has some mysqlism that we
> would need to work around. enums for instance, but i think triggers could
> take care of that for us.

enums will be going away in 2.1.  We eliminated many of them when we
removed the linkcategories table.  There are a couple more to go.

One approach is to transform WP's queries into a syntax appropriate to
the target DB.  This is done on the fly via a custom wpdb.php.  Someone
did this with sqlite.

http://trac.wordpress.org/ticket/2317


 > But I suppose that is all a bit premature without first hearing from the
 > devs.. =)

We've been slowly massaging our SQL into more portable forms.  Patches
to this end are gladly accepted.  There are some fixes in that sqlite
patch that I'd like to work in.  As for supporting multiple DBs, I'd
like to start by encouraging the approach above.  Provide a custom
wpdb.php that translates WP's queries into the necessary form.  This
will become easier as we get rid of enums and the like.

As for query cleanup, let's do this:

* Remove the remaning enums.  Anyone want to tackle this?  We need to
provide upgrade code and go through the source looking for those places
affected by the change.  The main enums remaining are the *_status
fields.  The can be changed to varchars.  link_visible, autoload, and
option_can_override can be changed to bools (tinyints).  There might be
some plugin compatibility problems with changing link_visible to a
tinyint instead of a string.  Need to see how many plugins check
link_visible.  I think option_can_override is dead.  We might be able to
remove it entirely.  I don't think any plugins use autoload directly, so
we should be able to change it without breaking plugins.

* General cleanups.  Make sure values are quoted, etc. Don't provide a
value for auto-incremented IDs. There are some fixes like this in the
sqlite patch that should be incorporated into core.  A separate patch
for those would be nice.

Ryan
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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Matt Mullenweg
In reply to this post by Matt Galvin
Matt Galvin wrote:
> Is there currently an effort (or a plan) to get WP working with post?

At this point it's unlikely that we'll officially support any other
databases besides MySQL becuse (a) doing so is a lot harder than just
swapping out ezSQL and (b) it increases the testing and support costs
quite a bit.

That said, as Ryan indicated we are making improvements to the schema
and such that may incidentally help out people porting WP to alternative
databases.

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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Andrew Krespanis
Just writing to put my hat in the ring...

I've got pretty extensive experience with adoDB and I'm already
investigating a WPmu-to-Oracle port for my primary employer.

If anyone else is interested in a more complete abstraction, not just
mod's for one DB in particular; count me in.

The other advantage of adoDB that isn't mentioned in the wiki page is
that if you have the extension compiled in it will automatically use
the functions from that and is pretty damn fast :)
PEAR's DB abstraction sucks. Sorry to any PEAR fans reading this ;p

cheers,
Andrew.

On 3/21/06, Matt Mullenweg <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Matt Galvin wrote:
> > Is there currently an effort (or a plan) to get WP working with post?
>
> At this point it's unlikely that we'll officially support any other
> databases besides MySQL becuse (a) doing so is a lot harder than just
> swapping out ezSQL and (b) it increases the testing and support costs
> quite a bit.
>
> That said, as Ryan indicated we are making improvements to the schema
> and such that may incidentally help out people porting WP to alternative
> databases.
>
> --
> Matt Mullenweg
>   http://photomatt.net | http://wordpress.org
> http://automattic.com | http://akismet.com
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

John Joseph Bachir-2
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Andrew Krespanis wrote:

> I've got pretty extensive experience with adoDB and I'm already
> investigating a WPmu-to-Oracle port for my primary employer.
>
> If anyone else is interested in a more complete abstraction, not just
> mod's for one DB in particular; count me in.
>
> The other advantage of adoDB that isn't mentioned in the wiki page is
> that if you have the extension compiled in it will automatically use the
> functions from that and is pretty damn fast :) PEAR's DB abstraction
> sucks. Sorry to any PEAR fans reading this ;p

What is y'all's motivation for wanting to use postgres? The usual
motivation for using one DBMS over another is features, which is obviously
not the motivation in this case since you are porting an exisitng
application. There may be some performance differences as well, but unless
there are some notable places where there are exponential or at least
geometric differences in time or space complexity, I can't imagine that
the effort to port to another SQL dialect would be cheaper than throwing
hardware at the deployment.

Also you mention that adoDB is fast... it might be fast compared to other
abstraction layers, but afaik all abstraction layers are slower than
direct SQL. Or does it have some super fancy caching these days? Much
fancier than the DBMS' caching systems?

Just curious... :-)

John
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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Andrew Krespanis
On 3/22/06, John Joseph Bachir <[hidden email]> wrote:

> What is y'all's motivation for wanting to use postgres? The usual
> motivation for using one DBMS over another is features, which is obviously
> not the motivation in this case since you are porting an exisitng
> application.
My reason for wanting to support Oracle is because there are a LOT of
universities already heavily invested in Oracle due to it being
required for Blackboard, the leading (*cough - i wish it wasn't true*)
Learning Management System. Seeing as Blackboard just bought their
only competition, this is going to increase over time.
As for postgres, I think those guys are in a similar boat -- if you
can't get MySQL installed for whatever reason, you work with what you
have.

> I can't imagine that  the effort to port to another SQL dialect would be cheaper
> than throwing hardware at the deployment.

What kind of cheapo servers is your company using and where can I get some?! :D
I can't speak for anyone else, but my day job doesn't have MySQL
because our DBA team are all Oracle and that's just the way it is.
Currently the estimate for a 99.xx% uptime MySQL box in our internal
data centre with support and nightly backup is AU$10,000 per year...
yeah, PER YEAR! :-O
There's no way it would cost $10,000 of my time to port WP. Even if it
did, it's a one time investment with periodic upgrades, not the same
fee every year.

> Also you mention that adoDB is fast... it might be fast compared to other
> abstraction layers, but afaik all abstraction layers are slower than
> direct SQL. Or does it have some super fancy caching these days? Much
> fancier than the DBMS' caching systems?

Absolutely -- lowest common denominator SQL (eg: pure ANSI 92) is aka
'slowest common denominator' -- you can't take advantage of anything
offered outside that standard. *However*, the adoDB object has a
lovely method called Prepare($sql); which does nothing on MySQL 4.x.
If you're using just about anything else though (M$SQL, Oracle,
Postgre, probably MySQL5) this will automagically take advantage of
the query caching offered by your target DB.

The best bit of the above query caching features (and other related
functions) is that you can call them for any target DB and adoDB will
know what to use and where. I get very good results using this with
Oracle and would almost go so far as to say any DB offering query
caching would slay MySQL for pure content output under heavy load.
(working under the pretence that PHP level cahcing isn't also
happening, which it should be). However, that's too hard to prove and
far too debatable, so I'm going to walk away from that statement ;)

To reiterate  -- abstraction is often referred to as a pretty term for
_slow_. Working off the php version of adoDB is fine, but the C
extension is truly awesome.
Also, adoDB 4.8 implements the Active Record pattern in a very similar
manner to the intentions of the Zend Framework (although Zend haven't
released that code yet afaik); although it actually is a more feature
rich implementation.

-Andrew

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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Andrew Krespanis
Sorry, I hit send too early:
Also, adoDB 4.8 implements the Active Record pattern in a very similar
manner to the intentions of the Zend Framework (although Zend haven't
released that code yet afaik); although it actually is a more feature
rich implementation. That alone would be a godsend for many plugin developers...

class Product extends ADODB_Active_Record {}
$p = new Product();
$p.name = 'Wicked Worpdress T-Shirt';
$p.price = '$15.00';
$p.save();

^ nothing to port there :D

On 3/22/06, Andrew Krespanis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3/22/06, John Joseph Bachir <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > What is y'all's motivation for wanting to use postgres? The usual
> > motivation for using one DBMS over another is features, which is obviously
> > not the motivation in this case since you are porting an exisitng
> > application.
> My reason for wanting to support Oracle is because there are a LOT of
> universities already heavily invested in Oracle due to it being
> required for Blackboard, the leading (*cough - i wish it wasn't true*)
> Learning Management System. Seeing as Blackboard just bought their
> only competition, this is going to increase over time.
> As for postgres, I think those guys are in a similar boat -- if you
> can't get MySQL installed for whatever reason, you work with what you
> have.
>
> > I can't imagine that  the effort to port to another SQL dialect would be cheaper
> > than throwing hardware at the deployment.
>
> What kind of cheapo servers is your company using and where can I get some?! :D
> I can't speak for anyone else, but my day job doesn't have MySQL
> because our DBA team are all Oracle and that's just the way it is.
> Currently the estimate for a 99.xx% uptime MySQL box in our internal
> data centre with support and nightly backup is AU$10,000 per year...
> yeah, PER YEAR! :-O
> There's no way it would cost $10,000 of my time to port WP. Even if it
> did, it's a one time investment with periodic upgrades, not the same
> fee every year.
>
> > Also you mention that adoDB is fast... it might be fast compared to other
> > abstraction layers, but afaik all abstraction layers are slower than
> > direct SQL. Or does it have some super fancy caching these days? Much
> > fancier than the DBMS' caching systems?
>
> Absolutely -- lowest common denominator SQL (eg: pure ANSI 92) is aka
> 'slowest common denominator' -- you can't take advantage of anything
> offered outside that standard. *However*, the adoDB object has a
> lovely method called Prepare($sql); which does nothing on MySQL 4.x.
> If you're using just about anything else though (M$SQL, Oracle,
> Postgre, probably MySQL5) this will automagically take advantage of
> the query caching offered by your target DB.
>
> The best bit of the above query caching features (and other related
> functions) is that you can call them for any target DB and adoDB will
> know what to use and where. I get very good results using this with
> Oracle and would almost go so far as to say any DB offering query
> caching would slay MySQL for pure content output under heavy load.
> (working under the pretence that PHP level cahcing isn't also
> happening, which it should be). However, that's too hard to prove and
> far too debatable, so I'm going to walk away from that statement ;)
>
> To reiterate  -- abstraction is often referred to as a pretty term for
> _slow_. Working off the php version of adoDB is fine, but the C
> extension is truly awesome.
> Also, adoDB 4.8 implements the Active Record pattern in a very similar
> manner to the intentions of the Zend Framework (although Zend haven't
> released that code yet afaik); although it actually is a more feature
> rich implementation.
>
> -Andrew
>

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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

John Joseph Bachir-2
In reply to this post by Andrew Krespanis
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Andrew Krespanis wrote:

> What kind of cheapo servers is your company using and where can I get some?! :D
> I can't speak for anyone else, but my day job doesn't have MySQL
> because our DBA team are all Oracle and that's just the way it is.
> Currently the estimate for a 99.xx% uptime MySQL box in our internal
> data centre with support and nightly backup is AU$10,000 per year...
> yeah, PER YEAR! :-O
> There's no way it would cost $10,000 of my time to port WP. Even if it
> did, it's a one time investment with periodic upgrades, not the same
> fee every year.

Okay okay, I was assuming there was an existing mySQL service... :)

Regarding the query caching, a couple questions.. [1] mySQL has query
caching, so why doesn't it benefit from what you are talking about? [2]
how does the abstraction layer take advantage of query caching beyond what
the DBMS does at its end anyway? Do some systems have more elaborate APIs
beyond just associating queries with results?

J
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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Andrew Krespanis
On 3/22/06, John Joseph Bachir <[hidden email]> wrote:
> [1] mySQL has query caching, so why doesn't it benefit from what you are talking about?

I realized that after hitting post! (long time no MySQL for me) I
considered posting a correction, but figured you call me up on that
anyway :)

> [2] how does the abstraction layer take advantage of query caching beyond what the DBMS does at its end anyway? Do some systems have more elaborate APIs beyond just associating queries with results?

$adodb->CacheExecute( ) || $adodb->CacheSelectLimit( )  -- fetches
previously retrieved recordsets (SELECT only) in file / stores current
request results in file if first request. There is more possible, but
they require bind var's. MySQL 4.x doesn't support binds, does it?

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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

John Joseph Bachir-2
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Andrew Krespanis wrote:

> $adodb->CacheExecute( ) || $adodb->CacheSelectLimit( )  -- fetches
> previously retrieved recordsets (SELECT only) in file / stores current
> request results in file if first request. There is more possible, but
> they require bind var's. MySQL 4.x doesn't support binds, does it?

hm i still don't get this bit... those two functions use the DBMS' query
caching? How? It seems like it would make more sense that it is adoDB's
own subsystem that is independent of the DBMS.

john
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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Andrew Krespanis
On 3/23/06, John Joseph Bachir <[hidden email]> wrote:
> hm i still don't get this bit... those two functions use the DBMS' query
> caching? How? It seems like it would make more sense that it is adoDB's
> own subsystem that is independent of the DBMS.

You asked me "how does the abstraction layer take advantage of query
caching beyond what the DBMS does at its end anyway?"  -- by writing
the resultset to file so it doesn't need to make a connection in the
first place :)
adoDB has two levels of caching -- the abstracted implementation of
each DB's query cache and it's own file based recordset cache.

*looks at thread title*
*wonders where  the postgre guys went :-? *

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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Douglas Stewart-3
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Andrew Krespanis wrote:
> *looks at thread title*
> *wonders where  the postgre guys went :-? *

I know their naming scheme has a long and storied history, but it's
generally referred to as "Postgres" not "Postgre". The full name is
pronounced "Postgress Cue Ell".

[/OSS naming pedant moment]

*grin*

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Re: Porting Wordpress to PostgreSQL

Carson Evans
In reply to this post by Andrew Krespanis

On Mar 22, 2006, at 5:57 PM, Andrew Krespanis wrote:

> *wonders where  the postgre guys went :-? *

I'd consider myself a "postgres guy" because I like it and want to  
see WP work well with it, but that doesn't mean In understand how it  
handles query cacheing. :)

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